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Require 2 factor authentication to sign up for payforit texts

By: andy69 | 12-08-2018 18:00

A lot of people are asking about being charged for payforit texts when they didn't subscribe to them in the first place. And how to stop further charges and get your money back. One way would be to require that the initial text is not charged for but is replaced with a text asking you to authorise the subscription. If you want to receive them, then you just follow the instructions in the text to authorise it. It could be follow a link or reply by text. After authorisation, you receive the original text and are charged. If you don't authorise it, you just ignore and no charges are applied.

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Comments

by: innovato
on: 26-04-2019 18:03

2FA shud be implemented to protect users, I suse 2fa wherever posb for all my cloud activities....some years ago on EE i found i'd been stung for months by a small charge going out every week amount to a £200-£300 and when i queried it with EE, after short argument they refunded all in full, never had the problem again. I seen elsewhere it has been stated that EE have been leading light on this issue, whereas GG are not...! as someone who is considering leaving EE to come to GG it makes me wonder if the savings would be worth the posb agro....!

by: buffydemus
on: 01-03-2019 10:13

hot deals guru, the number to unsub is the same as the other pay for it scams, all coming from the same place.

I called them I asked can you tell me exactly when and where I signed up for this service and the woman lied, she said I went onto my hot deals guru website and subbed to the service, this is completely false and I have gone back through my browsing history and at no time did I go on this website, I basically had a go at the woman for lying and she hung up on me but I got a text to say I was unsubbed.

Please giff gaff block this **** from happening! It is a scam, the people are liars, the woman blatantly lied on the phone and I can prove I never went onto hot deals guru.

by: muggles708
on: 19-02-2019 18:35

Some good news for a change. The PSA has finished its consultation on Subscription Services. I was pleased to see so many consumers responding to the consultation, to the extent that I don't think they were able to turn their backs on the problem!

There is a lengthy consultation document, and the responses can also be read on the PSA website.

The recommendations from the consultation include, amongst other things, a requirement for two factor authorisation for ALL subscription services. I wonder whether GiffGaff will now do something and tell us how wonderful they are at listening to their members. It looks as though the days of the Payforit scam may be numbered.

Details are on the PSA website. I can't seem to insert a link to the PSA site here!

They are now consulting on the proposals to introduce the new "Special Conditions" required to introduce the changes they are proposing. Please do respond to this. It would be a disaster if this failed at the final hurdle!

Paul

by: andy69
on: 20-02-2019 13:49

The PSA link is https://psauthority.org.uk/news/news/2019/february/consultation-on-new-special-conditions-for-phone-paid-subscription-services

by: lgmuk
on: 18-02-2019 10:57

Please instigate this, Giffgaff.

by: chelseamaniac
on: 09-02-2019 14:51

GiffGaff won't do this they make a lot of money out of the scam. I personally have never fallen victim but I can imagine it is annoying.

Come on GiffGaff protect your members before people start to leave you

by: plasticmac
on: 11-01-2019 14:32

These charges are NOT made via Premium Texts. They use something called Charge to Bill, operated by PayForIt (owned by Voda, Three, EE and O2). The scams exploit PayForIt to take money from your giffgaff account. The only fix is to opt out of Charge to Bill, which giffgaff do not currently allow (although O2 do). Disabling or adding validation to Premium Texts will not prevent PayForIt scams.

by: muggles708
on: 31-01-2019 12:16

I couldn't agree more. We need to draw a clear distinction between Payforit charges and Premium Texts. It doesn't help that the GiffGaff usage statement incorrectly shows these charges as Premium texts. It also doesn't help that the information sources that members are referred to contain the same confusion! Too many members are being misled into belief that blocking premium texts will protect them from Payforit scams.

by: ghiggs
on: 01-01-2019 13:32

Two factor auth and also an opt out of payforit default setting needs to be done. Imagine if any time someone got your email address they could steal £4.50 a week from paypal account. It would never happen. Giff Gaff and all providers get onto this fast please.

by: chrisforder
on: 01-01-2019 10:28

Supported

by: muddycalhoun
on: 31-12-2018 22:16

Giffgaff have to do something about this and I have not seen anything else suggested. Thanks andy69 good luck glad to see the increase in votes since I voted.

Edited
by: spacefrog
on: 28-12-2018 10:14

Daylight robbery and another scam, this not only leaves children vulnerable to run up massive bills or pay out to this scam but the elderly too……. needs to be sorted sooner rather than later, it seems that a lot of giffgaff member simply wont top up any airtime credit in fear of their airtime credit being taken, that includes me too….. as it happened to me 5 years ago, so giffgaff have missed out on 5 years of potential airtime credit top ups from me alone….. let alone everyone else….

by: cristo69
on: 28-12-2018 01:31

This HAS to be done, i wont be topping up again until it is

by: celinego
on: 27-12-2018 10:19

This is an excellent idea as my 16 yr old has just been conned out of £3 per week subscription by a company called Taptronic / Fitguru. Yes, we've blocked and I've called them and they're refunding but this idea would have prevented all of that.

Also, as my son is a minor, can't giffgaff also automatically block all premium services/numbers from minors's accounts? A child may not even notice such a premium number text, not tell their parents therefore continue to be exploited by such underhand scammers.

by: andy69
on: 17-10-2018 14:01

Here's a website that checks one of the ways numbers were leaked. For me, no phone number leak is detected whilst browsing over mobile network. See http://www.mulliner.org/pc.cgi.

See https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/25/smartphone-website-telephone-number/

Is there another way for a number to be leaked? If so, how?

by: jaymailsays
on: 17-10-2018 23:28

That website has not been given the decypher codes by giffgaff/telefonica. Payforit Merchants have paid for access to your mobile number during mobile browsing and they can decode the header info. Even using a vpn does not always protect you. Use WiFi whenever you can as that protects your information by isolating the mobile network from your browsing and hence payforit (part controlled by Telefonica) Occasionally o2 mess up and the number is on view to everyone.

Occasional Naked Security contributor Terence Eden has made a video demonstrating the problem:

The evidence.

by: andy69
on: 19-10-2018 07:42

Isn't that video linked to from the article I posted above. https://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2012/01/25/smartphone-website-telephone-number/ IE before O2 fixed that issue. Is there a link to another website that we can use to test as the one in the video just hung for me?

by: joe_mattinson
on: 18-09-2018 10:42

Hello,

THat's a brilliant idea, supported.

Having read down the replies, it's apparent that this is a fix to a deeper problem: GiffGaff and other networks give out our mobile numbers over xG networks which allows 3rd parties to process payments straight to our mobile accounts.
Whilst this can be useful, there is no protection for us against any scammers who just take our numbers and charge us without reason - it is simply theft.

And, GiffGaff get a cut of the profits of the PayForIt service that services these payments, so they have no incentive financially to stop them happening.

GiffGaff MUST do something to prevent theft from their members - us!
Either allow a bar on Charge to Mobile, or your suggestion of 2-factor authentication would work; I prefer your solution as it gives the users control.

Thank you!
JoeM

by: suzisuz
on: 24-09-2018 07:51

2-factor authentication sounds good to me, like you said JoeM it gives the users control.

by: andy69
on: 15-09-2019 16:50

I don't understand how this has been marked as implemented. As far as I'm aware giffgaff have not implemented 2FA for payforit but are relying on the merchants to be honest with their extra step. People are still being scammed because some of these merchants are claiming that the extra step has been done when it hasn't.

@holly_bc

Edited
by: bertiebat
on: 13-09-2019 13:59

I'm would be really pleased if this has been implemented but without exact details I'm reluctant to say this has.

It's important to know if we are to use this information when advising on help and support.

by: iant103
on: 03-09-2019 15:34

I have just received a text from "WAPSTAR" claiming that I had subscribed to something I have no knowledge of, I responded immediately with a STOP text that has cost me 10p, if I had been slower it would have cost me £4.50.

This is mugging by text it must be stopped!

by: kengra
on: 25-08-2019 14:53

Great idea. am not sure how feasible it is to add this to the existing O2 infrastructure

by: scrupps
on: 20-08-2019 15:12

it is outrageous that Giffgaff isn’t all over this and helping to protect customers from these scams. Giffgaff - stop messing about with stupid ideas like gameplan and sort this out now.

by: andy69
on: 13-08-2019 09:01

Now that giffgaff are implementing multi-factor authentication for SIM swaps and changing email address on members' accounts (https://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Announcements/Launching-multi-factor-authentication/td-p/23731315), hopefully it won't be long before they get around to implementing this idea as people are still being scammed by payforit scams.

by: alistairlee
on: 11-08-2019 05:57

This smells like the PPI scandle.

by: keith_uden
on: 31-07-2019 12:29

Supported. Get on this please giffgaff.

by: londonman947
on: 31-07-2019 10:58

My view much the same as , 'cazduck' (21/7/2019).

Further , how can a company in profit from scams , not be breaking the law .

I am a fan of GG , though they are long for this World , if they make no correction.

Keep the anger going !!!

by: cazduck
on: 21-07-2019 08:37

You absolutely HAVE to do this, Giffgaff. Otherwise you will start to lose customers. I've been with you approx. 2 years and delighted with the service you offer, have recommended you to lots of my friends. However, unless you sort this problem and put in some protection for your members I for one will be leaving you. Yesterday I got a scam text saying £4.50 will be taken WEEKLY as I have (NOT!!!) subscribed to Wapstar Content …. WHO????? I can't text STOP to the number as the texts won't send. I've looked at advice from the Giffgaff community and as a result bought airtime (which I NEVER do) so I could send the STOP text. It STILL won't send. I'm currently sitting here feverishly checking my £10 airtime credit every 5 minutes to see if £4.50 gets taken. No money stolen from me yet but I have every confidence it will be, and I am helpless to do anything about it.

BEYOND DISGRACEFUL that Giffgaff don't automatically block incoming premium texts. Put your ****** prices up to make up for the 30% fraudulent money you get from these texts - I'd rather pay more and know I wasn't going to get scammed. I'm a very calm person, I don't get angry but I'm ****** angry over this. Sort it out!!!!!!!!

by: mrb2966
on: 24-06-2019 18:55

Something like this should have been in place from the get go. I think it is an utter joke that I have to go out of my way to deal with scams like this myself because my number is allowed to be signed up to stuff without my explicit consent.

by: alistairlee
on: 11-08-2019 05:56

1

by: rogedw
on: 20-06-2019 21:40

Supported

by: urbanecommuter
on: 29-05-2019 18:52

I've received a "you've subscribed" text today and reported them to the toothless regulator.

Is there a network provider that uses 2 factor auth for this already? If there is I'll change tomorrow.

IMNSHO Giffgaff and O2 probably aren't stopping this because they profit.

There's got to be a point where being complicit in enabling fraud from which you profit rolls over into criminal responsibility. I see at least 3 years of reports on the number that is scamming me.

by: nickyheywood
on: 25-05-2019 20:24

supported

by: bing5582
on: 23-05-2019 19:09

Yes suported

by: peterg92
on: 23-05-2019 11:18

Supported

by: timbav
on: 09-05-2019 17:03

This should be mandatory for all network providers.

by: muddycalhoun
on: 09-05-2019 08:48

Ig what I read from muggles in contribute this morning is bona fide congratulations are due to andy69 (and anyone else who may have suggested this coincidentally)

Going to be implemented 11 5 19 it said !!

by: andy69
on: 09-05-2019 11:53

What is being implemented 11th May 2019 is nothing to do with giffgaff but the rules for payforit are changing so the merchant has an extra step to perform. However, the people behind the payforit scams have been shown to claim that people have subscribed when they haven't. I don't see any reason why they couldn't also claim people have gone through the extra step required from 11th May. Rather than the merchant policing this, it should be the network. IE giffgaff should ensure that their customers have subscribed. That's why the initial confirmation text should come from giffgaff rather than the merchant.

by: msmon55
on: 07-05-2019 15:49

GG really need to either implement two step verification or better still give its members the ability to simply opt out of all premium rate services. Surely GG have a duty of care to its members? And if GG are in fact receiving a commission from these scam premium rate companies that must surely mean that GG are implemented in committing fraud?!!!

by: raiele
on: 18-05-2019 10:30

Absolutely agree

by: andy69
on: 07-05-2019 15:00

I see this has been marked as implemented. I don't see how as I received a message from @holly_bc at 07-05-2019 13:29 saying ...

What i'l do is, i'm going to change the idea to Future Thinking as it's something we'd be interested in doing in the future, but right now, it's not something we'd be able to implement due to network limitations and our current project load. I've spoken to a few different product owners and it's definitely something they'd love to get their teeth stuck into. So it'll be something thats on our back burner, but something we'll definitely look at implementing soon if we can!

Edited
by: andy69
on: 07-05-2019 15:30

@holly_bc has kindly put this back into "we're looking into it".

by: mutley01932
on: 06-05-2019 12:51

Just been scammed by Mainstream Games £4.50 taken from my account, never given permission. It appears it goes via Payforit service that giffgaff earn commission from. giffgaff agents tell me no refund and wash their hands of it basically. HANG ON A MINUTE!! giffgaff meant to be run by its members so we demand that 2 factor authentication is introduced (as done by EE) to protect us. Header text on this page says "giffgaff looking into it" DATED AUGUST 2018!!!

Edited
by: johnb21
on: 16-05-2019 17:04

The same has just happened to me. GiffGaff need to be introducing 2FA immediately to stop this. Maybe after 7 years with GG I'll take a look at EE...

by: mrlar48
on: 05-05-2019 10:33

stop this and get it sorted payforit scams are giffgaff a responsibility and they will gain a bad reputation for allowing this to happen

by: chrissyquinn
on: 04-05-2019 17:28

I've had one of these txts by nexgen saying they will charge me 4.50 do they try and take this from your phone credit or ba k account? I am pay as you go just on a goody bag so presumably they cant take money from me unless they have access to my bank account which they shouldn't have.

by: muggles708
on: 02-05-2019 21:23

Reply received this evening on Twitter from GiffGaff:

Hi there. From May 11th, Payforit merchants will have to make sure that a confirmation text is sent to your mobile before completing the subscription, which will detail the charge and what it's for. This may ask you to put a PIN into the web site to confirm your subscription.

Well done Andy69 and everyone else who has supported this!

by: andy69
on: 02-05-2019 22:24

Although that sounds like a step in the right direction, it looks like it's nothing to do with the network but is sent by the merchant. If that's the case, I wouldn't be surprised if this does nothing to prevent these scams as the companies involved seem to be unscrupulous. They currently claim that people subscribe when they don't. I don't see why they wouldn't just claim that people have gone through the process of entering the PIN. What I expect is the 2FA to be done by the network. IE money would only be transferred to the merchant once the network has received confirmation from their customer that they have subscribed. In my idea, I was expecting that the initial text would be replaced by one from giffgaff to confirm subscription. If the customer ignored the message, then no charge would be made. Consider the example when buying goods from a website: often, you are presented with an authorisation screen from the payment provider to confirm the credit card payment. IE it's independent from the website selling goods. In a similar way, I'd expect the merchant not be involved in the authorisation of debits to my account balance.

by: henryscat
on: 02-05-2019 19:36

Another call for 2-factor PLEASE!


Having never had any problem with this sort of thing before, I got my first scam text from PayForIT / Wapstar today:

FreeMsg: Thank you for subscribing
to Wapstar Content for £4.50 every
week from Wapstar until you text
STOP too 83463 HELP? 03300535841.
Charge applied to mobile phone bill.

I didn't see the Watchdog episode that supposedly covered this last night, but I very much doubt this is a coincidence! Nice one...

by: shazzyq1
on: 01-05-2019 20:21

I received a text today from Nexgen saying I had subscribed and they were going to take £4.50 a week from me. ????

I have never heard of this company nor subscribed for anything. I have sent the stop text and did get a reply stating I had unsubscribed from it so now hoping this will be the end of it.

I think giffgaff should have some sort of protection against this, where do they get our phone numbers from? I don’t give mine out. If we have done everything we can from our end to stop these scammers withdrawing our money then at least giffgaff should refund it.

by: johnrmason
on: 01-05-2019 20:08

After seeing Watchdog tonight I'm worried that there is no verification to protect Giffgaff users against fradulent app subscription. Is there anything that can be done - eg 2 factor auth of some sort?

by: andy69
on: 01-05-2019 19:49

Good to see BBC watchdog highlight this issue tonight.

by: johnrmason
on: 01-05-2019 20:06

Can I add my voice to this - something like 2 factor auth needed for this

by: niccijv
on: 30-04-2019 18:24

Please implement this! Just had to complain about being subscribed for a premium service that I definitely did not subscribe to! SCAM!!

by: yummywerewolfhunter
on: 29-04-2019 16:31

I feel this should be implemented as soon as possible.

by: eugeneboiko
on: 28-04-2019 22:33

It is evident from the commentary here and elsewhere that the payforit scam is very widespread. "We're looking into it" doesn't seem to be an appropriate response from GG. "We're doing it" would be, preferably very soon!

by: beenbop
on: 26-04-2019 15:16

Reading many of the linked comments I can see that giffgaff are ignoring this problem or at best struggling to impliment a solution. If I get hit again I will have to move back to O2 were I can get the barring facility. What a shame.

by: ebonym28
on: 24-04-2019 10:54

Games4Mobile by Nexgen contacted me yesterday saying I have subscribed (when I haven't, never even heard of the company) and saying they will take £4.50 out of my account.

Look at how many people have backed this because I know for a fact I am not the only one that isn't impressed by this!!

by: lindsaydone
on: 26-04-2019 12:30

I too had one of these texts yesterday and today they have taken £4.50 out of my account. I sent a STOP message (separate from their link) and have recieved a confirmation text saying that I have been successfully unsubscribed from Games4Mobile...we shall see!

by: niccijv
on: 30-04-2019 18:28

I received one of these this evening telling me the money would be taken from my account tomorrow! I also sent the STOP message, separately from their link, and received a confirmation text to say I have been unsubscribed... Where are this company getting our numbers from? Come on, Giffgaff, help your faithful customers to stop this happening. PS I've lodged a complaint with the PSA as suggested in one of the community comments about this issue

by: flatovercrest
on: 13-04-2019 13:07

Games4mobile took me for £4.50 yesterday, unfortunately I'd seen some bad advice saying to ignore the initial text, 24hrs later £4.50 is taken from my account. I've made contact with the offending company, requesting a refund. I've got my fingers crossed. I can't remember signing up for anything, I don't play games or use anything with "in App" purchases, so all I can think is I made a typo, or clicked a bad link & visited a page by mistake.

It's imperative that there should be another stage to authorisation, say for instance you didn't pick up the first text within the "24 hr cool off period", then first thing you know is after you've already lost the money.

Update (25 April 2019). Games4mobile have given me a date & time that i am supposed to of "subscribed" I've checked all the history on my phone, there is nothing at all to link me with them. In fact on the day in question all I accessed was a free app (which is a genuine free app), over 2 hours before the time they say. I've requested some proof of my subscription, I'm awaiting their reply.

Update (1 May 2019) 1 week on and I've received no proof of "subscription" or refund from Games4Mobile. I have sent them a reminder. If I get nothing by the end of this week I will be taking some legal advice & maybe getting an independent forensic check to prove 100% that it was not me or my device. As far as I'm concerned, unless it can be proved otherwise I've had £4.50 stolen from my giffgaff account.

Update (7 May 2019) I was finally sent "proof" of the device & IP address used to subscribe to the service - The information I've been sent does NOT relate to my phone in the slightest. So again I've requested a refund and am awaiting a reply.

But that's now got me wondering, as it was definitely a device other than mine, then how can it be MY account that's been debited, is this due to some sort of fraud or hacking?

Edited
by: lindsaydone
on: 26-04-2019 12:35

Will follow this thread closely as I've just been 'successfully unsubscribed from Games4mobile' after £4.50 was taken. Cheers.

by: erisds
on: 10-04-2019 13:21

I keep being told by Giffgaff support that I have to comment here if I want to be heard, so here I am.

It is absolutely imperative that Giffgaff adds second or multi-factor authentication on their online accounts immediately. There are now at least 7 ideas that cover this:

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16713916/2-factor-authentication

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16712158/allow-users-to-secure-their-accounts-with-2-factor-authentication-2fa

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16701487/u2f-to-protect-personal-data-on-my-giffgaff-with-2-step-2-factor-authentication-option-for-my-giffgaff-logins

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16712363/require-2-factor-authentication-to-sign-up-for-payforit-texts

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16707920

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16703325

Many of these are over 4 years old. It's very clear that no one reads or moderates this board.

That's fine - it's up to you to choose whether to moderate the board, but if you're not going then your agents need to stop telling people to raise ideas for things that have been open for 4 years already and be honest about the fact that no one cares what's written here.

by: erisds
on: 10-04-2019 13:21

I keep being told by Giffgaff support that I have to comment here if I want to be heard, so here I am.

It is absolutely imperative that Giffgaff adds second or multi-factor authentication on their online accounts immediately. There are now at least 7 ideas that cover this:

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16713916/2-factor-authentication

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16712158/allow-users-to-secure-their-accounts-with-2-factor-authentication-2fa

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16701487/u2f-to-protect-personal-data-on-my-giffgaff-with-2-step-2-factor-authentication-option-for-my-giffgaff-logins

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16712363/require-2-factor-authentication-to-sign-up-for-payforit-texts

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16707920

https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16703325

Many of these are over 4 years old. It's very clear that no one reads or moderates this board.

That's fine - it's up to you to choose whether to moderate the board, but if you're not going then your agents need to stop telling people to raise ideas for things that have been open for 4 years already and be honest about the fact that no one cares what's written here.

by: bensim
on: 05-04-2019 10:11

Important - please do this soon

by: andy69
on: 29-03-2019 19:09

Wow, 300 votes! Thank you for your support for this idea. It's been some time since giffgaff said they were looking into it. I wonder how long it is going to be before they implement something to protect their customers from this blight.

by: soapysuds65
on: 24-03-2019 13:26

just been scammed for the second time £3 for the first time £4:50 second time. Yes they seem like meagre amount but that's not the point. The scummers that do this are probably aware that they've pitched this scam at a point where they can get away with it, because, who is going to spend so much time in order to get this type of money refunded. This needs to be Stopped. If the phone networks and providers were banks they would be liable for not protecting people information and allowing these third parties to obtain money by the means of fraud and deception.

The 2 factor authentication system should be in place to protect people and combat such issues. I am all for it. It begs the question:

If giffgaff has nothing to gain by not intergrating such processes, which are widely used elsewhere, then what have they got to lose? Apart from customers.

by: ngreenall
on: 21-03-2019 19:00

I haven't given out my phone number or clicked on any websites. I have been scammed out of £4.50.

Its a disgrace that this goes on in 2019 in the UK.

by: chrisbaldy
on: 21-03-2019 17:54

Changed my number and got scammed again. Don’t access these sites, don’t want these services and GiffGaff just say I am responsible for charges after their sytem has been comprimised and numbers released to criminals. They take no responsibility for looking after customers money or data. 2 factor autherisation is well over due. Although PSA recommendations may have something to do with this bright idea. Can’t keep changing numbers and can’t have credit.

by: helen_starkey
on: 17-03-2019 20:28

great idea

by: davidjsmith67
on: 03-03-2019 08:36

More items to consider:

1. Add an option to "Air Time Credit" usage to allow or disallow Premium Rate Texts - i.e. like an Adult Content filter. That would stop this right away, as you (giffgaff) would reject the charge request from the mobile payment provider where we (the customer) have clearly said "no" to premium rate charges.

2. Use an anti-spam requesting number filter.

If you know the "mobile payment providers" e.g. mGage are requesting charges from a particular origin number, then stop the charge being taken and validate their request with your "paying customer" before you (giffgaff) allow the charge to be deducted from air time credit. If we (the customer) says "no" then stop the charge! The mobile payment provider will then have to push this issue back to their customer to resolve.

3. Use an anti-spam text filter the premium rate messages at the "text" level. These unwanted charging premium text messages appear to have exactly the same content, e.g. Just4Life Nexgen Ltd. If you detect the "suspicious" content in the message, then ask your customer to confirm the charge before it is made.

4. Retrospective authorised billing. Assuming the customer has air time credit on the account, only allow the mobile payment provider to be paid after your customer has confirmed the charge, e.g. at the end of 7 to 30 days. If the customer rejects the charge, the mobile payment provider is not paid and their client has to take proceedings against their customer to recover the money they believe they are genuinely owed.

5. Premium rate billing account. When a premium rate text is detected by giffgaff charge this to a separate "premium rate" account (like air time, but solely for premium rate texts), where credit is allocated by the customer. If the value is zero then the mobile payment provider cannot charge the account.

by: soapysuds65
on: 24-03-2019 13:35

Spot on. These are great ideas. Separate Air time account and premium rate account. Premium rate content filter - options box

by: gvmhb
on: 25-02-2019 18:13

Very good idea.

by: maccaroon13
on: 23-02-2019 17:53

Indeed!!! I have 4 at least of these in a short period of time and today another saying Payme. Would appreciate any help instead of bleeding money away to something you don't want.

by: noelpearson
on: 18-02-2019 11:14

I've just received a text from Games Network from Noatel saying I'm signed up to them and going to pay £4.40 a week. I have not signed up and want this stopped.

Texted STOP to 64055 but returns as undelivered. Ideas?

Thanks

by: michaelboland2
on: 15-02-2019 16:19

Hi

This is all too complicated for me. Why do companies like Jamjar Mobile have to be so unscrupulous?

Thanks for your help

Regards

Mr Michael Boland

by: karind
on: 15-02-2019 16:12

I got scammed twice within 10 minutes today. PayForIT and Jammitup. Sent STOP to both of them. Not happy and I am not even sure if I got charged as GiffGaff does not offer itemized bills, only on request.

If that happens again, I am leaving. I have been a customer for over 5 years but I don't like this one bit.

by: plasticmac
on: 17-02-2019 17:28

Jammitup are the scammers, PayForIt are the facilitators of the scam. The only way to stop this happening is to opt out of Charge to Bill. Giffgaff do not currently allow this.

by: ulyssesthirteen
on: 14-02-2019 01:02

I've been woken up at 11.50pm by a text from hdwallpapers.shop labelled 'receipt' stating that I'd signed up for a £4.50 a week service that I've not actually signed up for (hdwallpaper.shop) Who actually buys phone wallpapers?

I find the fact that this kind of scam exists very worrying. A cursory glance at the internet shows that it's been around for years and next to nothing has been done to prevent it. I find this very suspicious.

by: yhogg77
on: 13-02-2019 13:08

Hi, was scammed last week by Games4Mobile. Unauthorised £4.50 taken from my credit and cannot get a credit from Nexenmobi after making 2 requests. Get this sorted GiffGaff or my husband and I will be looking for another mobile service provider.

Yvonne

Support all efforts to eliminate scammers.

by: tokyobuta
on: 11-02-2019 12:46

An excellent idea!

by: thunderdragon
on: 09-02-2019 22:18

Supported. Not only has this whole Pay4Brexit thing put me completely off the idea of using mobile internet connectivity, but I'd also hold that - In providing my mobile number/account details to website operators without my explicit and informed consent (Whether this number is "encrypted" or not) - GiffGaff might be in breach of the GDPR on this one, as they are sharing users personal details with third-parties Without the Data Subjects' permission. :o

Sadly though, I get the impression we'll only get the desired ability to block "Charges to Bill" once one of GGs board members finds themselves falling victim to one of these scams... :(

by: plasticmac
on: 09-02-2019 14:16

This idea would require PayForIt (not Giffgaff) to change the way there "Service" works. It is not something Giffgaff, or any of the networks (who own, and profit from PayForIt) can do. The only way individuals (ie giffgaffers) can prevent these scams happening is to opt out of Charge to Bill. This is something a network can do, as 02 already does. Giffgaff are dodging the issue by letting us vote for an idea they know they can't implement.

by: plasticmac
on: 09-02-2019 13:53

I think we should be able to opt out of Charge to Bill" if we wish to. The scams, such as fitguru etc, all use a service company called PayForIt, which is owned by Vodafone, O2, EE and Three. Other networks, including O2, offer such an opt out, so why not Giffgaff?

Two step authentication is good, if you use the "Charge to Bill" service, but if you don't use it, and never will, you must be able to opt out.

by: techiebloke
on: 06-02-2019 10:40

How about a complete opt out

by: plasticmac
on: 09-02-2019 13:54

Yes, this is the best way to **** off these scammers.

by: moder19
on: 06-02-2019 10:38

Increasing security is always a good idea.

by: sgucukoglu
on: 04-02-2019 13:20

This is an outrage. I just set up my dad's new number, and "FitGuru" took £3 of the £5 balance on it. I texted the STOP message and it seems to have worked, but I'm still mightily annoyed about it, since the initial texts looked like scams that could easily have been ignored if I had turned on ignoring of unknown senders (the phone is just so he can FaceTime mum, he's deaf and old and techno-illiterate, so I want him free of as many distractions as possible).

Giffgaff: you're normally pretty dependable and, although I've had my disagreements in the past with some of your policy, still reputable as a great value service for those who need you. Please do what you must to stop this. Your good karma is on the line here.

To everyone else: I suggest that you turn off auto-top-up, and manually or automatically add goodybags from your credit card or PayPal. I think this is only possible if you have credit--it can't work if you've paid for bundles.

by: wreaksrevenge67
on: 01-02-2019 12:43

I have just been scammed two payments of £4.50 by Just4Life/SB7 whoever these people are, and GiffGaff don't care. Change your system GiffGaff ASAP so that your customers aren't ripped off. I'm waiting until my credit is scammed down to zero then I'll be off too find another provider, shame, as I had always got on ok with GiffGaff until now but I'm not happy with your response, so another customer lost..

by: tired16
on: 31-01-2019 22:21

I think this is a fantastic idea!! Power to the PEOPLE! You have my vote. :)

by: gaynorwatkins
on: 31-01-2019 15:35

Yet again I have fallen victim to these fraudulent premium sign-ups. Twice in the last two days I have been subscribed to "offerguru" by magage.com

Why is giffgaff so reluctant to protect it's members by implementing a 2-stage sign up to these premium subscription services as suggested by andy69 nearly five months ago

"Looking into it" simply isn't good enough... Do it!

Edited
by: muggles708
on: 31-01-2019 11:50

I had an interesting meeting with someone in "the industry" yesterday. He told me that the networks keep 30% of the Payforit charge as a handling fee. Does this explain why GiffGaff are so unwilling to protect us?

by: giant_hogweed
on: 31-01-2019 04:46

I have been charged £3 twice by scammers using SMS short code 64404 (premium rate text service). Oddsio / Goldeness are purporting to be some kind of online gambling service, but in reality they are just stealing money from peoples mobile phones! How can this be allowed to happen? I have not subscribed to this "service" and never would, as I am very much anti-gambling. After being charged £3 the first time in December, I put a block on the short code 64404, but I was then charged a further £3 on 1st January for a premium text that I didn't even receive! I have now sent a STOP text to 64404 in the hope that this may work and also reported to the Phone-paid Services Authority. Is there any way of getting refunded by giffgaff? It seems that customers of o2 and Three networks have managed to obtain refunds from their network operators in relation to this scam!

Get your finger out giffgaff - stop these scammers and refund your customers when they have lost money!!

by: jenmason
on: 26-01-2019 13:40

I got scammed by Lasevia, one of the usual suspects, but did get my money back, eventually. It's utterly disgusting that this practice is allowed to continue. I don't believe it's a GiffGaff issue per-se, it's industry wide. Ofcom should be relied on to sort this out, but whether due to ineptitude or vested interest refuse to do so. I'd like to hope that if everyone wrote to their MP every time it happened they'd soon get bored hearing about it and might make it illegal - but being reminded by the Brexit deliberations about what a complete shower they all are, I wouldn't hold your breath.

by: acidmango
on: 25-01-2019 09:25

This is disgusting. I will be looking for another provider if this isn't sorted.

by: liberty_guy
on: 25-01-2019 07:53

If GiffGaff can't offer an option to prevent 'PayForIt' services to be blocked completely to prevent scams (I have just had £4.50 taken) then I will have to leave and find another provider.

Scamsters can't just be allowed to take people's money - just not on.!!

by: seyhan11
on: 22-01-2019 11:54

stealing 4.50 pounds a week and immediately, without any proof of authorisation or any proof of even visiting or clicking on any thing. This happened to sooo many of us and none of us visited or clicked on anything!! I am shocked that this is how my account, phone number and money managed by GiffGaff?? Also, this scam people, after threats with legal action and reporting, told me that they can send money as a check in the post since GiffGaff does not authorise refund back?? How strange? Allow thieves to steal our money, extremely easily, but do not authorise to return it back after we get anxious, angy and spend so much time on this to get our money back.

by: frenchielove
on: 21-01-2019 17:02

it happened to me too, it needs ro be stopped pronto!

by: tired16
on: 31-01-2019 22:22

It's so common now, it's happening to everyone, isn't it. :( Sorry it's happened to you.

by: mm6waw
on: 21-01-2019 13:19

i have tried the stop mesage but i still get them costing me a fortune scammers they only want to steal your credit going to jump ship to ee Giffgaff your companys a joke these scammers have stole around 20.00 over the last 6 months so much for security on your phone network

by: emmalouisep93
on: 18-01-2019 20:09

Brilliant, good luck

by: peterg92
on: 18-01-2019 20:07

Yes please

by: aboocock
on: 18-01-2019 16:34

Yes please, we need a way to be able to control premium access to my account, I do not now, nor will I ever use any premium information subscription service, and I do not wish to be scammed (and charged) like this in future.


by: madeinholt
on: 16-01-2019 10:44

Get a wiggle on and implement this NOW!

by: trudy04
on: 16-01-2019 09:35

I definitely think there should be a two step process. You should have to authorise for a company to take money from your account. This is very widespread. Within 2 hours of activating a new GIFFGSFFaccount £3 was deducted from the balance. In total £9 was deducted from the account and more would be but no money left. The offerguru service was never subscribed to. I did not reply STOP immediately as assumed it was scam and money would be deducted if you replied to the text. Can't believe that unscrupulous companies can just keep deducting money. All our family and friends use Giffgaff ,as it has always been a good service provider. Do the right thing and stop this from happening as it seems that the vulnerable and naive are being especially abused by these scam companies.

by: soruk
on: 30-01-2019 12:24

This sounds like a recycled number, the previous owner had signed up - or been scammed and changed their number. And now the number is live again they can start hitting it again - and, if the previous owner had "properly" signed up, their records will show the number was legitimately subscribed. There also needs a system where when a number is disconnected, it is forcibly unsubscribed from all these paythroughthenoseforit-type services.

by: howling_wolf
on: 12-01-2019 13:51

This needs doing! Just been hit with 2 charges when I wasnt even using the mobile or online so it was not caused by me clicking any links & OFCOM needs to get their act together & make it safe from this scam!

by: andy69
on: 12-01-2019 07:29

Giffgaff have said they are looking into it so hopefully they'll implement something to protect their customers from this blight. Thanks to everyone who has backed this idea.

by: holeymoley5
on: 11-01-2019 09:38

I lost £22.50 of my credit to tap4it/Stripey. No-one is going to give me my money back. I was scammed, didn’t get any help from GiffGaff, so have voted with my feet and am off to another provider and taking my husband with me.

by: muggles708
on: 31-01-2019 12:19

You should always TRY to get your money back. Start by insisting on it. Then pursue matter through the Small Claims procedure. I'm not aware of anyone who has followed this procedure and failed to get a FULL refund (plus court fees where it has gone that far).

by: pnewell
on: 10-01-2019 14:38

needs sorting I'm fed up of been ripped off twice at £3 a text , something I've not agreed to, if its not sorted I'm going to leave giffgaff and find another phone povider

by: jonschneider
on: 10-01-2019 12:48

I like this idea but extend it to anything premium.

A few weeks ago I ran down my credit on a manufacturer's help line. Had I known it was a premium rate number, which I should have realised but didn't pay attention, I would not have called them.

I got the inkjet playing again. User error. Not one of my better days.

Edited
by: fadlur_f
on: 10-01-2019 11:33

Hey there andy69,

Thanks for submitting this idea to us.

We're going to take a look into this idea and will come back with an update.

Nice one.

Fadlur

by: avisbyrne
on: 08-01-2019 22:50

Time this was sorted. There are ways to block this under your control. Two factor would let you off the hook and provide a get out for innocent users that are being taken for granted.

I can't see how you comply with data use legislation if you are sharing my details with a third party that I haven't selected of my own volition. I didn't receive any notification text beforehand which leads me to believe that they have been given illegal access to sensitive data.

by: wordsmith1327
on: 08-01-2019 22:40

This is a must have to preclude inadvertent sign up to these dodgy schemes. More so because they can scam you without notice. We got caught and there were no messages advising we had subscribed to anything. This was clearly a misuse of my data.

by: dazmcgee1982
on: 08-01-2019 07:21

yes please

by: paoconnor
on: 07-01-2019 18:11

This sounds like a great idea.

by: barbst
on: 07-01-2019 11:46

I have been scammed. It's expensive and stressful. Giffgaff could stop this.

by: annejohnson1
on: 06-01-2019 22:56

please implement this giffgaff to stop a lot of people being scanned and unhappy.

by: abcbex
on: 06-01-2019 10:27

Happy to support this excellent suggestion.

by: tomaspinall
on: 04-01-2019 19:37

This is essential to stop people like me being scammed and charged for something I never signed up for. Implement it giffgaff!

by: julieflew
on: 04-01-2019 17:23

show some support and service here Giff Gaff.

by: hamishdowner
on: 03-01-2019 22:04

Just worked out that my auto top up was just because of fitmate tv and payforit charges - I had no idea I was paying for receiving those texts (and no idea what I did that "signed me up"). I would really prefer that a second step was required to make this kind of scam harder.

by: gcase64
on: 26-12-2018 22:09

After reading a lot of comments here I am really shocked and surprised that so many giffgaff customers receive these texts.I have never heard of such a number of customers on any other network recieving these texts.Yes it does happen to other network customers but certainly nowhere near the amount of giffgaff customers that get them.I would like to know if there is a law that would cover the taking of money in this manner.Where do these scammers get the phone numbers from is a serious question that needs answered by giffgaff.I would appreciate if anyone could shed some light on this matter.

by: gcase64
on: 02-01-2019 20:03

@celinego, Thank you for that information you have given me.I never knew any of that. Your suggestion about an automatic block and having to contact giffgaff to get it removed is certainly the best answer to stop this scam. Thank you again.

by: frommoon
on: 07-01-2019 11:52

Good idea but saw it already before.

by: celinego
on: 27-12-2018 10:27

These scammers don't necessarily get access to phone numbers via giffgaff from other online sources that you may also have stored your phone number on. My 16yr old watches youtube videos a lot and has his own youtube channel (he wants to be a sports journalist and publishes match reports and videos on it). So a very genuine and practical reason for him to have one. HOWEVER, there are some videos he watches where these scams have links and by simply watching the video, you're tracked from that viewing. There are also pop ups that do the same. So the fact you've clicked on a video which has these links attached is sufficient for scammers to say that's how you've "chosen" to subscribe to them. Perhaps giffgaff should block all such premium service numbers from ALL accounts (not just children's) and make it so you have to OPT IN by contacting giffgaff to unblock the number?

by: sue139uk
on: 26-12-2018 15:03

The sooner the better. I dare not leave emergency money ready in my account as it keeps being robbed in £3 chunks by these "pay for it text" services which I have never signed up for. I trusted GiffGaff and they keep letting me down.

by: winterthur
on: 24-12-2018 01:11

Giffgaff should do this NOW. Ever heard of such a thing - anyone who wants to can effectively just dip into your phone credit? Too ridiculous for words !! Giffgaff is complicit in it by allowing it to continue. It's like a bank that allows third parties access to its customers' bank accounts ! I.e. totally untrustworthy. I'm looking for another provider. Giffgaff is proving to be unworthy of my trust and my money.

by: ourmark
on: 22-12-2018 03:00

I'm not topping up again with Giffgaff until this is implemented. And once my credit is gone, I'll be changing to a provider that can block Payforit charges to keep my money safe.

by: njmean
on: 21-12-2018 20:56

So long as the authorisation text if from GiffGaff and not the operator. I believe that over a certain amount the operator has to use 2FA but the scam ones ignore this or use a lower amount.

If I'm billed for one of these scams again I'm off.

by: muggles708
on: 31-01-2019 11:56

Yes, the limit is £4.50 per week. PSA require any "service" costing more than this to use 2FA.

by: gckgiffgaff
on: 21-12-2018 13:22

I am in the process of preparing an action against Giffgaff because they can do something about it but CHOOSE not to. They have a duty of care that they are negligent in ignoring.

My investigations to date do not put PSA in a good place either and they will probably be included in the action.

PSA acts as regulator on behalf of Ofcom but is not even subject to Freedom of Information requests! It's a bit like putting Dracula in charge of the bloodbank.

Ofcom comes under Department of Culture Media and Sport; emails to the Secretary of State and the Dept have been ignored.

The whole mess reminds me of the PPI scandal that went on for years, everyone knew about it, except the regulator, "no-one has done anything wrong", "the situation is being monitored" blah, blah, blah. 2 step authorisation is a simple, cheap and effective start. I urge everyone to email their MP with a copy to the Secretary of State.

by: newcrazymember2018
on: 19-12-2018 13:26

This really does sound like a great idea and it would help people so much and save them from losing money.

by: onemanandhisrake
on: 19-12-2018 10:40

Come on Giffgaff sort this Sh*t out! I'll be off if I receive one more scam. So will the other 5 members of my family. We've had enough!

by: audreyclarke
on: 18-12-2018 20:46

I agree this would be a good plan, I just had this and I never signed up for anything !

by: rmildren
on: 17-12-2018 18:12

Get this done NOW!

by: mij_sky
on: 16-12-2018 21:07

sold

by: moleymum
on: 16-12-2018 11:42

Supported

by: bill720
on: 11-12-2018 21:22

Supported

by: wiljum
on: 10-12-2018 19:41

Same here. I had apparently subscribed to something that I know I definitely did not subscribe to. Something needs to be done. andy69’s idea sounds good.


FreeMsg: You have joined Money Saving Alerts costing £4.50 per alert max 3 per month. You can stop anytime by sending stop to 64640. SP Tresiaz Help?01514386478

by: alastair_duncn
on: 07-12-2018 13:05

I agree. I received three messages today signing me up to premium subscriptions which I had not signed up for. There needs to be more protection in place for GiffGaff customers.

by: mikeyz
on: 06-12-2018 12:45

This really needs to be done. Taptronic subscribed me to their service without my permission, took all the £ out of my account, took all data out of my account. Absolutely gutted.

Now i have 'unsubcribed' from them I am now getting dodgy phone calls from the united arab emirates!

Giffgaff have no 'blocking' option for these calls.

Feel let down by giffgaff. This option for 'payforit' texts for checking needs to be done. They are a complete scam. I expected more from giffgaff

by: lorerestaldi
on: 05-12-2018 10:59

Agree, it would provide a way out of this insane scam.

by: aberdeenscottie
on: 05-12-2018 06:29

I agree, there should be another screen confirming you want to make the payment.

by: mikejubb
on: 02-12-2018 06:53

I also have recently been scammed by offerguru for £3 week which I think it was illegally taken from my balance. Different advise appears online as how to stop it but I have sent STOP to said number,64055.

We do need some help from our phone company, this idea might help long-term but how can I be sure it has been stopped this time, surely Giffgaff can stop someone taking money from my account without my authorization or if I advise them too?

Thanks Mike.

by: mcjoshea
on: 29-11-2018 22:15

I just got scammed by Listen2books two days ago. Luckily I had only 10p in credit so they could not take anything. Got the stop message sent off with my 10p and then sent them a strongly worded email asking to be cancelled. Got a phone call the next day to say we have been removed. But how was I signed up? Just so you know I've been signed up for a paid for service on average about once a month. I have never ever knowingly signed up for any of these services. I've been signed up when I've been sleeping and while watching a performance in a theater. One time I left £3 on my phone to stop the £4.50 scammers getting me. The money went on at lunch time and by 8pm I got signed up for a service for £3 a week! I really wonder how the scam company knew I had £3 on my phone then. The only people that knew were giffgaff. Could they have passed on that information? I certainty hope not. Maybe it was just a coincidence but I am not convinced. I've raised cases with the PSA but all that happens is that if you are lucky about 6 months later you get your £4.50 back. You never get compensated for all the time and stress this costs. What I want to know is how it is possible for these companies to get you signed up without your knowledge. This is a national scandal waiting to be uncovered. giffgaff needs to be careful because reputations are hard to come by and there are now so many people being affected by this that it is almost certain to damage their image when customers realise how complicit they are in allowing the scams to continue. giffgaff really need to prevent people from being stung. We need a way to block these scam now! Please giffgaff, do the right thing and let us put a stop to this once and for all. Let us put a block on these services so we can all avoid being scammed.

by: diamond222
on: 28-11-2018 12:21

i like this idea

by: rozina
on: 27-11-2018 11:57

good

by: redroman
on: 25-11-2018 23:54

Strongly support this idea.

I just suffered and was charged by the Listen2books 'Payforit' scam, which I never knew or subscribed to. Very surprisingly why Giffgaff is so negligent for this blatant scam. Some member said, "Unfortunately, Giffgaff have a policy of not assisting their members in dealing with these scams, so you are on your own.", and "Payforit scams are a problem across all networks, but Giffgaff are almost unique in not providing an opt-out from Payforit". I don't understand why Giffgaff prefer to provide the convenience for these theft to plunder their members accounts, rather than doing something simple to protect their customer, unless Giffgaff are in common interest with these scam companies.

If Giffgaff doesn't protect us or user accounts, I will leave Giffgaff and suggest people I know to leave as well.

by: redroman
on: 25-11-2018 23:43

Strongly support this request.

I just suffered and was charged by the Listen2books 'Payforit' scam, which I never knew or subscribed to. Very surprisingly why Giffgaff is so negligent for this blatant scam. Some member said, "Unfortunately, Giffgaff have a policy of not assisting their members in dealing with these scams, so you are on your own.", and "Payforit scams are a problem across all networks, but Giffgaff are almost unique in not providing an opt-out from Payforit". I don't understand why Giffgaff prefer to provide the convenience for these theft to plunder their members accounts, rather than doing something simple to protect their customer, unless Giffgaff are in common interest with these scam companies.


If Giffgaff doesn't protect us or user accounts, I will leave Giffgaff and suggest people I knwo to leave as well.





by: zakzakzakz
on: 25-11-2018 09:11

Wholeheartedly agree.

by: zapz1
on: 21-11-2018 07:34

I had payforit steal £4.50 plus text to cancel

Giffgaffs response was not our problem read terms and conditions 1.we can steal from you 2. You can do nothing about it.

This is totally unacceptable: like others I did nothing and agreed to nothing except close a page that was nothing to do with what i was looking for. No consent to purchase anything: no idea of what the product even was.

Giffgaff takes a percentage from these thefts. Giffgaff conspires with the thieves by not only giving them your phone number (the only way the thefts can operate) but this is done without the consent or knowledge of the Giffgaff customer and there’s no way to stop giffgaff giving out your number

From the above it is abundantly clear that Giffgaf is committing condpricy to defraud and needs to be prosecuted.

There is one way to protect yourself from these scams and that is by using a VPN such as Nordvpn. This will prevent your phone number being given to any website that asks for it. Additionally, they have an app that will stop the internet connection if the VPN fails which is further protection

Edited
by: redroman
on: 25-11-2018 23:50

I agree with you. Giffgaff are providing the convenience for these theft to plunder their members accounts, rather than doing something simple to protect their customer. Highly likely Giffgaff are in common interest with these scam companies. Does any people know how to raise a group prosecution of Giffgaff? I will support this class action.

by: muggles708
on: 31-01-2019 12:01

GiffGaff take about 30% of the Payforit charges. This probably explains their reluctance to protect us.

by: muggles708
on: 31-01-2019 12:01

GiffGaff take about 30% of the Payforit charges. This probably explains their reluctance to protect us.

by: flaxvert
on: 18-11-2018 22:16

Did you know Payforit.org is owned jointly by 3, EE, O2 and Vodafone? I imagine if giffgaff wanted to adopt some sort of 2 step system they would have to wait for O2.


The Phone-paid Services Authority(PSA) regulates the industry and will soon be consulting on changes to the rules governing ‘Payforit’ subscription services.

EE introduced a 2 step process in February 2018 and it has been successful in dramatically reducing ‘Payforit’ fraud on that network.

Three Network Payforit is (at least) a two-step process. On the first screen, you'll see the item's name, its cost, the name of the provider and any other relevant information, along with a buy button. On the second screen you'll be asked to confirm that you want to make the purchase. http://www.three.co.uk/Support/Internet_and_Apps/payforit

by: muggles708
on: 31-01-2019 12:10

The Three process is exactly the same as on all the other networks (apart from EE). Don't confuse two step authorisation with two factor authorisation. The two step process is what is SUPPOSED to happen at the moment. The problem is that is is being circumvented by malicious code which can be embedded in ANY web page. Two FACTOR authentication uses a PIN number sent to the user's phone which then has to be entered correctly to complete the subscription process. This is what EE is using, and it has been shown to defeat the exploits being used to circumvent the current process.

by: gcase64
on: 18-11-2018 21:30

Why is it having to be implemented at this stage ?.It should have been covered as soon as a customer joins giffgaff.With giffgaff being as good as it is, nothing like this should even be getting through the giffgaff servers.Also,how do these scammers get the phone numbers that they send these texts to.

by: adamtheant
on: 18-11-2018 18:55

this would be good

by: peterg92
on: 18-11-2018 17:29

Definitely ????

by: jurekejg
on: 17-11-2018 10:26

I totally agree to this idea. it is unacceptable that any service should be able to take my money prior to my consent. Just lost £4.50 to some NexGen scam!

by: jurekejg
on: 17-11-2018 10:20

absolutely agree with this proposal. It is unacceptable that anyone could just help themselves to my money without my prior authorisation for services I haven't even subscribed to. This loophole should not have even existed!

by: winterthur
on: 24-12-2018 01:18

dead right!

by: hcs22
on: 16-11-2018 16:07

Agree with this idea. The current situation is untenable.

by: adventure17
on: 16-11-2018 08:15

Supported

by: johngiffgaffbrown
on: 15-11-2018 09:50

A simple solution to this problem - come on Giff Gaff this needs to be stopped today...……...

by: andy69
on: 15-11-2018 10:55

@johngiffgaffbrown and others Thanks for your positive comments. It doesn't look like you've voted for the idea (well the number of backers didn't increase) so please do vote as well.

by: mick_hale
on: 12-11-2018 12:40

Having been scammed by Wapstar, such a system should be implemented

by: nsw1654
on: 12-11-2018 10:36

Great idea. Fairly simple to implement I would imagine

by: defraybo2
on: 12-11-2018 09:31

something should be implemented as too many of giffgaff's members are suffering from this I do believe also that the government and regulatory authorities should be doing a lot more to outlaw these low life scammed. Pearl in Britain work hard for tree wellbeing and should not be left vulnerable by a theft that is so blatantly obvious.

by: keith13
on: 12-11-2018 08:07

Great idea

by: clive84838
on: 11-11-2018 13:53

This recently happened to me: FreeMsg: Thank you for subscribing to Wapstar Content for £4.50 every week from Wapstar until you text STOP to 83463. HELP? 03300535841

I texted STOP, and then the next day called their number. They were very friendly, however after a couple of minutes I realised they're just an outsourced phone-answering company and I wasn't able to speak to someone from Wapstar. They advised I send an email, but got no reply from them after 2 weeks. Next step, report them to the PSA.

GiffGaff support acknowledged that I'd had £4.50 taken out of my account but say they can't help any further and that there's nothing they can do to prevent this nor compensate me for the stolen money (if you search online you'll find examples of other companies providing compensation).

I fully support this idea to enable 2-factor authentication, as this experience has caused me a lot of hassle and GiffGaff will be losing one more customer!

by: la_globule
on: 11-11-2018 11:45

Great idea! Should have been done a long time ago, simple common sense. Come on Giffgaff.

by: rogersphone
on: 10-11-2018 15:24

Please do this it's only fair and reasonable. As an older user I will need this protection as my mind deteriorates or I get ride of a phone and that would be a shame.

by: factotem
on: 06-11-2018 17:00

Having been scammed by fitguru if I can find a provider who can block these before you do I will be leaving giffgaff. A shame as I have just given my daughter one of your sim cards as a birthday present and I very much wish I hadn't.

by: dancingbrave
on: 04-11-2018 09:11

Yep, listen2books just got me, I have never supscribed to anything. I have asked giffgaff via an agent for a refund otherwise I’ll move to a different provider simple as that If anyone from giffgaff is reading this I will stop my £15 a month subscription and I have being with you from the beginning when it runs out on the 28th of this month unless you refund me £4,50 from listentobook and the 40p (up from 10p) to send the stop message.

by: laura48211
on: 02-11-2018 11:40

Im seeing far to many of these scams happening on the Help & Support please listen to this great idea as it would give members more faith in Giffgaff & obviously security from these scams

by: jayden_nile
on: 02-11-2018 06:44

I am now going to warn everyone on @twitter DON'T use GiffGaff you are a TARGET for Theft as GiffGaff profit from these scam and unlike other networks do NOTHING to prevent it.

by: jayden_nile
on: 02-11-2018 06:37

You had you chance Giffgaff.com 2nd time in a week GiffGaff.com have facilitated theft from my airtime. 30 mins ago this time from "Games4mobile" for £4.50. This despite me having blocked all Premium Calls & Texts on my account settings, despite the fact I NEVER play Games, despite the fact that I have NEVER at any time entered this number into ANY website and have NEVER made ANY subscription. I AM NOW LEAVING GIFFGAFF and advocte EVERYONE do the same unless you are comfortable with the knowledge that you are going to be continually and repeatedly targeted by these THIEVS because they KNOW GiffGaff.co don't care about their customers. If you have a GiffGaff number you are a TARGET for theft and GiffGaff.com. I am telling EVERYONE I know do NOT use GiffGaff, they don't care about there customers and set them with Bulls Eyes on their backs saying >>>>"I a GiffGaff.com subscriber please steal from me"<<<<< EVERYONE LEAVE GiffGaff! Warn EVERYONE! They will do NOTHING to stop this otherwise.

by: defraybo2
on: 30-10-2018 09:13

there are a lot of these problems cropping up all the time on the giffgaff forum so anything that can help to bring it to an end will be a massive improvement to the service. One has to wonder how anything as belly crawling as this scamming method is actually legal, surely the regulator should be doing more to outlaw this highway robbery.

If this can be a help to our members then I hope it can be implemented.

by: cidchambers
on: 30-10-2018 08:56

You can't get through to these degenerate reprobates. There's an answerphone asking you to leave your details, something no-one in their right mind is going to do, and now a message saying the mailbox is full and you can't leave a message.


This will not stand.

These thieving vermin are stealing our money while Giffgaff sits back and does absolutely nothing about it.

by: jayden_nile
on: 02-11-2018 06:42

LEAVE GiffGaff. GiffGaff is now the Expensive Network by far because of this. I am leaving. Will NEVER return. Warn EVERYONE GiffGaff.com sets up their subscribers for theft. LEAVE GiffGaff.com

by: tasneemo
on: 29-10-2018 19:41

YES!!!

Any idea to try and stop these SCAMBAGS is a great idea!

I've just been scammed by fitguru a few days ago, I've texted them STOP to unsubscribe but have not yet called them to try and get a refund. I shouldn't have to!!! And this new idea will solve that problem as it would stop people from getting scammed automatically.

by: mabrahams1
on: 29-10-2018 09:24

An excellent idea. I'm leaving Giffgaff for a company with seemingly more robust protection against this sort of scam. So this will be too late for me.

I've encountered problems with two companies Fitguru and more lately offerguru. I did not request either of these services and after a lot of phone calls have so far succeeded in getting £6 of refunds issued by text message.

Good luck, although Fitguru has a registered office in London, calls seem to be fielded from Croatia (amongst other countries?), with a finance department, according to the helpful Croatian guy) in Dubai.

by: jayden_nile
on: 02-11-2018 06:48

Yes I am leaving GiffGaff too and warning everyone DON'T use GiffGaff. Giffgaff is now the most expensive network by far because if you are a GiffGaff subscriber you are a TARGET fro theft.

by: mabrahams1
on: 29-10-2018 09:24

An excellent idea. I'm leaving Giffgaff for a company with seemingly more robust protection against this sort of scam. So this will be too late for me.

I've encountered problems with two companies Fitguru and more lately offerguru. I did not request either of these services and after a lot of phone calls have so far succeeded in getting £6 of refunds issued by text message.

Good luck, although Fitguru has a registered office in London, calls seem to be fielded from Croatia (amongst other countries?), with a finance department, according to the helpful Croatian guy) in Dubai.

by: gosling72000
on: 29-10-2018 06:07

I fully support your suggestion of : Support GiffGaff introducing two factor Authorisation for ‘Payforit’ https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16712363/require-2-factor-authentication-to-sign-up-for-payforit-tex...

This has seriously unnerved me. I am standing my ground and reconsidering my position with Giff Gaff after losing £3.08 from a scam text pushed by offerguru

by: myging
on: 28-10-2018 07:08

Supporting it. Got a text from offerguru, same thing happened as the others. So far texted STOP for the subscription and it said I unsubscribed and when I checked my Giffgaff usage it said no charges were taken from premium texts.

Please make the 2 factor authorization for these texts!

by: clive84838
on: 27-10-2018 05:04

i fully agree. Just been robbed of £4.50 by the following text:

FreeMsg: Thank you for subscribing to Wapstar Content for £4.50 every week from Wapstar until you text STOP to 83463. HELP? 03300535841

by: jayden_nile
on: 26-10-2018 21:45

I fully support your suggestion of : Support GiffGaff introducing two factor Authorisation for ‘Payforit’ https://labs.giffgaff.com/idea/16712363/require-2-factor-authentication-to-sign-up-for-payforit-tex...
This has seriously un nerved me. I am standing my ground and REFUSING to make any further TOP Ups to my GiffGaff number untill Giffgaff,com urgently address this scam and activley advocate anyone affected to do the same untill a 2 factor authentication is active and functioning. Untill this is so GiffGaff.com is activeley aiding the "Payforit" scam by it's neglet to GiffGaff subscribers in safguarding us.

by: f7ancis
on: 26-10-2018 10:07

O2 allow you to place a bar on "charge to bill". Why does Giff Gaff which sits on the O2 network not offer the same facility? This is causing me to suspect GffGaff are benefitying oin some way from letting the appaling practice continue and persuades me to ditch GiffGaff for a O2 sim. Several other networks also pffer this bar facility,

by: jayden_nile
on: 26-10-2018 21:52

Yes there can be no doubt that GiffGaff.com are beneficiaries of this scam. If they don't act urgently and robustly to safeguard us subscribers then Giffgaff.com (now FULLY aware) are complicit in aiding this "payforit" Scam. NO EXCUSES @GiiffGaff - Notice is served on you...

by: gloriousiam
on: 22-10-2018 17:43

Nice one.

by: drkarter
on: 28-11-2018 11:18

Very good idea! I voted for yes!

by: chanudeteli
on: 21-10-2018 16:50

That' s a very good idea!

by: newcrazymember2018
on: 21-10-2018 14:51

I don't want to get charged for this

by: denysecoughlan
on: 20-10-2018 17:45

Definitely a good idea, just paid out £9 after my daughter didn’t subscribe to listen2books!

by: chanudeteli
on: 21-10-2018 16:48

The same has happened to me! It sucks!

by: dancingbrave
on: 04-11-2018 09:09

Yep, listen2books just got me, I have never supscribed to anything. I have asked giffgaff via an agent for a refund otherwise I’ll move to a different provider simple as that If anyone from giffgaff is reading this I will stop my £15 a month subscription and I have being with you from the beginning when it runs out on the 28th of this month unless you refund me £4,50 from listentobook and the 40p (up from 10p) to send the stop message.

by: pinkunykorn
on: 17-10-2018 12:30

I like it

by: jaymailsays
on: 17-10-2018 02:06

How "payforit" works is that our balance cash is deducted by payforit Merchants and it is only then, that the receipt sms is sent to a "subscribing" member and the payment becomes apparent.

Ofcom rules say that the customer must contact the Merchant for a refund. A two stage authorisation cannot work unless Ofcom not giffgaff implement it and Ofcom are the only authority that can instruct Merchants to comply.

However, giffgaff have complete control over displaying our mobile number in the header for Merchants to use and abuse the so called members subscription which is unaudited and unregulated.

Currently it appears the Merchant only has to confirm that customers visited the web page not that they subscribed.

Edited
by: jshea1571
on: 16-10-2018 07:48

it’s a yes from me. Other providers offer a charge to bill bar. Giffgaff should do the same. It gets a slice of these payments so how is that 'for the community' when it is profiting in people's misery?

by: claire1uk
on: 15-10-2018 21:25

Most definitely yes from me.

Good luck.

by: manfred_sim2
on: 15-10-2018 17:58

Better still, block them by default and maybe let the user activate them if they wish.

by: ijustcantdoit
on: 15-10-2018 16:07

Yes from me andy

by: emmalouisep93
on: 13-10-2018 20:26

Good idea

by: acsp
on: 13-10-2018 08:02

I think this is a very good idea

by: jeremylalou
on: 11-10-2018 16:29

+1

by: jsmith2009
on: 11-10-2018 07:30

Yes a good idea. Any increase in security is a good thing in my opinion.

by: tracy71
on: 10-10-2018 14:40

very good idea

by: andypsion
on: 10-10-2018 11:40

Having just been caught for nearly £25 I'm all for it. As I read down the comments it seems that all other network providers including O2 provide an option to bar 3rd party charges so I'm surprised at Giffgaff not implementing this as they seem to me generally to be better than other providers in all other respects. Common Giffgaff.

by: dancingbrave
on: 04-11-2018 09:11

Yep, listen2books just got me, I have never supscribed to anything. I have asked giffgaff via an agent for a refund otherwise I’ll move to a different provider simple as that If anyone from giffgaff is reading this I will stop my £15 a month subscription and I have being with you from the beginning when it runs out on the 28th of this month unless you refund me £4,50 from listentobook and the 40p (up from 10p) to send the stop message.

by: andypsion
on: 10-10-2018 11:40

Having just been caught for nearly £25 I'm all for it. As I read down the comments it seems that all other network providers including O2 provide an option to bar 3rd party charges so I'm surprised at Giffgaff not implementing this as they seem to me generally to be better than other providers in all other respects. Common Giffgaff.

by: muddycalhoun
on: 09-10-2018 16:28

oh yeah, payforit seems to blight giffgaff I had never heard of it with my long time work provider and came to giffgaff and it is quite the nasty skeleton in the closet of the network. If it is possible to do then absolutely agree

by: butrate
on: 09-10-2018 13:40

very good idea but i also recived one from fitmate via FreeMsg: not payforit

by: ken_peck
on: 09-10-2018 13:27

I fully support this idea.

by: nickyheywood
on: 09-10-2018 12:15

good idea

by: ginge_dave
on: 07-10-2018 16:27

great idea!

by: shakira8
on: 30-09-2018 12:04

voted

by: eluminea
on: 10-10-2018 13:34

Seems like an interesting idea.

by: persco
on: 29-09-2018 07:19

this is a no brainier now in light of recent security issue now but t_will has said its being discussed. Hope they implement it soon.

by: cmac91000
on: 28-09-2018 10:51

I'be been scammed for £6 so far in the past day or two but I don't know who by? my usage statement just says Premium text with no number and I don't appear to have any texts from anyone that I don't know. Can anyone help? I have asked for help from giffgaff but none received at the moment.

by: 30cr
on: 28-09-2018 09:26

Supported !

Just been scammed again by taptronic with their £3 fitguru subscription.

Sending a STOP text may work for a day or two, but as I've found out, they can just scam you again for £3 at any time.

Giffgaff are creaming off a profit from each one of these, so I won't be topping up again.

I'm seriously thinking of dumping Giffgaff if EEs 2FA is as useful as it sounds. Their charges may be higher, but if I can stop the scammers looting cash from me whenever they wish, I'll be happier.

by: texa1801
on: 24-09-2018 15:28

I just got scammed from some company who claimed I signed up for a subscription from them, which I clearly did not and had no idea how I got charged on my airtime credit. A 2-factor authentication similar to banks or Paypal would be great as it would give me more control over my phone number and deter unsolicited premium sms services.

by: williamwalker
on: 23-09-2018 22:20

this idea needs implementing straight away too many people are getting conned by this.

by: jmccarthy2912_2
on: 22-09-2018 16:09

in response to various comments......

https://psauthority.org.uk/for-consumers/why-have-...

"Your Mobile Network Operator can provide you with information about unexpected charges. They can also put a bar on your account for all forms of phone-paid services. Be aware, however, that this might prevent you from engaging with phone-paid services that you do want, such as in-app purchases, voting on TV talent shows, or donating to charity by text."

by: alex920
on: 21-09-2018 20:44

No thanks

by: tids44
on: 21-09-2018 15:23

No for me

by: rocket_science_itisnot
on: 20-09-2018 10:29

Wouldn't using the existing block "Incoming premium calls and texts" setting on https://www.giffgaff.com/call-services stop the chargable text being delivered and the charge being applied?

by: andy69
on: 21-09-2018 15:18

Experiments show that it doesn't. See earlier postings in this idea.

by: johnsmith140289
on: 19-09-2018 21:02

No thanks, best just keep it simple

by: saman14541
on: 18-09-2018 23:28

i have an even better idea. the payforit system should be abolished completely, it is unsecure and outdated. most people now use a credit or debit card to purchase things online.

by: vixjordan
on: 18-09-2018 21:43

Yes! I have just been stung by one of these payforit scams - 2 step verification or some other form of additional protection is definitely needed!

by: hakwright
on: 18-09-2018 14:34

There is currently no protection for GiffGaff users against these payforit scams. This idea would give decent protection by ensuring there is genuine consent.

I was recently stung, received 3 SMS and a £4.50 charge for "jam jar club" subscriptions I did not consent to or ask for (seems likely that a malicious ad or pop-up on Guardian website was responsible). The disgrace is, there is literally nothing I can do to avoid this in the future, apart from never browse websites on my mobile unless using wifi.

There has to be protection in place. Requiring confirmation by text in a 2-step process would be a very useful step.

by: ungourin
on: 17-09-2018 20:31

a little confusion with your idea but i get your drift , vote from me

by: zainabi
on: 17-09-2018 13:11

i like it

by: tracy71
on: 16-09-2018 11:05

what a good idea

by: tazzy19
on: 15-09-2018 18:20

It's a nice idea but to be honest I'm not sure even 2 factor authentication will stop the posts claiming they were signed up without their knowledge, simply look at the number of threads in H&S claiming giffgaff took double payment etc etc.

The payment process steps you through, goodybag, top up if needed, amount to pay today, checkout, pay now, at least 4 steps where you can see what you're buying and thus being charged for

And before that when they started a gigabag as a data add-on.

People are too click happy and just want to dismiss warnings etc etc without bothering to read.

Unpopular opinion but some peoples phone's are smarter than they are!

by: muggles708
on: 28-09-2018 16:05

EE implemented this back in February. Like the GiffGaff forum, the EE forum used to be full of complaints about 'Payforit' services. Since February, these have all but disappeared. The few reported cases relate to subscriptions started before the new EE rules came in. Unlike you, I believe that the majority of these complaint are the result of code exploits in web pages or in malware. While I accept that SOME cases will be down to carelessness on the part of the user, there is ample evidence that the current system can be exploited to sign up users without their knowlege and consent. The evidence from EE is that two factor authorisation DOES stop 'Payforit' scams and it is time that GiffGaff took action to protect its members from them.

by: le_merovingien
on: 13-09-2018 21:21

I have recently been a victim of a paryforit scam (fitguru by Taptronic). It is utterly disgraceful that giffgaff allows its customers to be robbed in such a way. By enabling unauthorised 'payforit charges', giffgaff are, in my opinion, complicit of fraud and theft of its customers' credit. On this occasion, I find that giffgaff has fallen far bellow the standards and customer service one can expect from a 'reputable' service provider. I am shocked and disappointed.

by: eileenk_ocds
on: 12-09-2018 16:38

I have just been scammed for Payforit texts to the tune of £9. Got unsolicited texts from MyMediagams and MyLifestyle. Hitting my head off a brick wall trying to get it sorted and refunded so totally agree with this lab suggestion. It means I will now try to keep a low balance so I don't have any money to be scammed out of. there was a good answer by Paul muggles708 on: 16/02/2018 | 13:27 he has a link which is worth checking out.payforitsucks.co.uk

by: taralily
on: 11-09-2018 18:28

Great idea. Just been scammed - so fed up.

by: chinsndips
on: 17-09-2018 10:49

Great idea, I like it.

by: bobrobinson
on: 11-09-2018 16:26

Great idea there Andy you have my vote.

Lets hope it gets implemented real soon as many gaffers are getting scammed .

All the best Bob

by: tracy71
on: 16-09-2018 11:05

Same

by: bige0n
on: 11-09-2018 16:23

Great idea but better still


DONT send my mobile number on the data services at all, without first ASKING my permission to do so for each number, or allow me to have it turned off completely!

by: kathleen414
on: 10-09-2018 16:17

Great idea supported

by: cptjohnboy
on: 10-09-2018 10:28

Should be done asap

by: as7861
on: 09-09-2018 00:43

Hi,

Fab idea, supported. This would be ace that would be great that extended to any credit usage there can be 2 factor to stop scam calls too.

by: zainabi
on: 08-09-2018 14:42

supported

by: 4128334
on: 08-09-2018 11:53

I unreservedly support this idea.

It is time some action was taken to outlaw the activities of the companies.

by: tradertall
on: 06-09-2018 16:07

good idea to fight fraud

by: mijthebarber
on: 05-09-2018 10:02

great idea , over our time we've all been caught out at least once

by: peterg92
on: 04-09-2018 22:11

Good idea

by: leshin
on: 04-09-2018 21:21

Wicked

by: hunterchunk
on: 03-09-2018 18:14

if it's a possibility to implement then it gets my vote. It's quite disgraceful the amount of people being scammed .

by: cass905
on: 03-09-2018 12:48

very strongly agree with this all companies should be protecting their customers

by: ujo55
on: 02-09-2018 11:00

Agreed, something needs to be done!

by: timwilliams25
on: 02-09-2018 09:51

Good idea if it is possible. I am sure the scammers would not be happy though.

You can also change your account settings so you can receive premium rate calls or texts - would this work too?

https://www.giffgaff.com/call-services

by: muggles708
on: 02-09-2018 17:50

No, Tests have shown that the block on incoming premium texts is ineffective against 'Payforit' charges. A pity, because it would be great if it worked! Actually nobody seems to be able to tell me exactly what this bar DOES do!

by: saman14541
on: 18-09-2018 23:40

the payforit system is different to premium calls and texts. premium calls and texts are reverse charge, this means the recipient pays instead of the sender. payforit creates a charge directly to an account. the bar blocks premium calls and texts but not payforit charges

by: sana_j19
on: 01-09-2018 18:09

good idea

by: sleeves
on: 01-09-2018 08:22

I support this.

by: sha_shah1
on: 31-08-2018 21:02

Good idea

by: joolzian
on: 31-08-2018 20:46

Seems like a sensible idea so supported.

by: various_mm
on: 31-08-2018 18:43

yes, anything that protects GG users can only be a good thing

lots of scammers out there and we need protection

by: smithster225225
on: 31-08-2018 09:37

Good idea BUT how easy/difficult would it be to implement?

by: muggles708
on: 31-08-2018 16:01

A system of 2 factor authorisation is already in place for 'services' costing more than £4.50/week. It should be simple to extend this to ALL subscriptions services, but not sure if GiffGaff could do this unilaterally. EE have done, but they are not an MVNO.

by: mcilwraith
on: 30-08-2018 12:20

anything that would put a halt to these scam artists could only be a good thing

by: harrrrrry
on: 30-08-2018 11:06

Strongly agreed. Payforit should work more like direct debits, with specific prior agreement and the ability to obtain recompense for improper debits immediately and directly through the network, not having to deal with some random third party that is probably a fraudster.

by: muggles708
on: 30-08-2018 10:49

An excellent idea, but not sure how easy to implement. EE already do something akin to this. When a consumer clicks the 'subscribe' button, a PIN number is displayed. This PIN then need to be entered correctly in order to complete the subscription process. Because the consumer has to take positive action in order to subscribe, and the chances of entering a correct PIN 'accidentally' are very small, it is a much more effective way of confirming consent to charge.

This system is already in place for all networks, where the charge exceeds £4.50/week. All that is actually needed is to extend this to ALL subscriptions.

The incidence of 'Payforit' issues on the EE network has dropped dramatically since February, when these measures were introduced.

by: chookiecaz
on: 07-05-2019 00:47

I received a text that was sent at about 14.55 on Sunday for something I haven’t subscribed to so I don’t know who the company is, what I am allegedly subscribed for or when it was supposed to have happened. I have copied and pasted the text message below:

FreeMsg: Thank you Your free trial of MyLifestyle from Nexgen Ltd will end on 06/05/19. Then £4.50 per week until you text STOP to 64055. HELP? 02037403517

by: claire_windle
on: 08-05-2019 15:11

Exactly the same thing has just happened to me. Have voted. Will Contact bank to block money leaving my account based on what I've read here...I have to admit I'm not very tech savvy. The giffgaff ethos is great, however if customers remain unprotected then they'll vote with their feet and chose another provider.

Bank advised don't respond to text. Payforit website advises respond to text with stop message.....not sure which I should do!

by: marinauk
on: 01-01-2019 19:48

i did not subscribe for any premium text messages, but was changered a few times.

not sure what do you mean to ignore? I do ignore but still charge

how can i get my money back

i did check numbers have no idea what is it and I also check messages time in my account. I did not send or received any messaged at that time

it isi so annoying as i lost nearly £10